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From: MSN Nicknameimagetroby52 Sent: 5/10/2007 11:45 AM
Hmmm...I think that the security issues should be considered. There seem to be a lot of members that have those concerns. Can someone illuminate me on the difference between MSN and vbulletin on that issue?
Thanks in advance
Tom

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From: MSN Nicknameimagedsg_stang Sent: 5/10/2007 11:58 AM
On the security issue, this message board CAN be made private. I was an owner of 2 MSN groups previously.
trob - with vbulletin there is a public side that non registered members see first joining BUT they can only see what boards the manager/owner deems allowable. With MSN you do not have that option. You can either make it completely private, or completely public. Like Sky, I also have a stalking ex husband, and that was my main concern here when joining, but I just try to be as cautious as possible with my posts.

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From: MSN Nicknameimagejhall0626 Sent: 5/10/2007 4:45 PM
Here's the problem I see with Pam and Paddy's arguments...

While I can appreciate having an easy time managing this place, and it's certainly an easy learning curve, that tends to be as much a problem as a benefit.

A less than stellar individual requires ban from both chat and the message boards, which usually means two different login names.

That aside, I get a sense of "waiting until it's necessary". But that presents the problem of when necessary does come... how much time are we going to have to make the move?

I recall, not that long ago, we came very close to being rushed into a move or some other sort of change, because of an MSN Groups policy modification. I don't know about ya'll, but if a new "policy change" goes into effect, we could have a matter of a week or two to make a change.

Even with the highly experienced tech folk in the group, that would be pushing the limits methinks.

On to the issue of privacy, first what Pam mentioned. Right now, I can (to a degree of certainty) assure you that this message board, and the posts contained within it, has been cached by a search engine. Google, Yahoo!, Live, The Way Back Machine... Somewhere, it's stored besides MSN Groups.

Now, with vBulletin, we can easily make some areas of the board private, some public. Banning repeat account creators is relatively easy (since it bans based on their IP Address). I can write Bot directives that will prevent any search engine (that follows the rules) from caching posts from the entire board, or from certain areas.

So in that sense, a move would greatly increase the level of privacy and security.

In that sense, moving posts would add a certain higher degree of security and privacy to the members of DCS.

Finally, a point about the argument for de-centralization. DCS is not de-centralized. On the contrary, it has more single points of failure than moving to a DCS "group owned" site. Right now, DCS exists at the discretion of MSN Groups, and their various departments (legal, policy, upstream, financial etc).

It's also completely at the hands of it's managers... if they all leave without appointing a new one (which I doubt, but bare with me), DCS no longer functions. Which is also true if we moved, but that's the point, a move wouldn't be a benefit or a bad thing in either case.

By moving to a new domain, DCS would still have some "over head" involved in it's existence. However, if we were to move to a new site, a new hosting provider is easily found should the current one fall out. And moving would be seamless... most members wouldn't even know it happened (this doesn't include the initial move, but changing hosting providers, if necessary at a later date).

Policy making decisions would be solely at the discretion of DCS Managers and members, which I consider the ideal situation. If we want an "all adults forum" it's certainly possible, if we want some forums private and others public, it's certainly possible. No longer would DCS policies be at the mercy of another organization.

So I suppose, I argue that while both your points are valid, a move would actually protect them a great deal more than prevent them.

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From: CalBob Sent: 5/10/2007 7:17 PM
First, on my previous post, I may have spoken too soon. Also, for anyone who wants further information on copyright, a good summary can be found at http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html
or, for those of you who want to try to wade through it, he gives links to the actual laws on which that site is based.
I know that there have been other UserNet sites that have moved more than once, and when doing so, they copied all data, posts and all. However, just because it's been done before with no problems, doesn't mean that it's legal. CM refers to Point of Presence. However, Point of Presence has to do with things like simply changing a domain name or, more often, transferring software from one computer to another which doesn't violate copyright, providing, you remove the software from the source from which you copied it or copy it only for backup purposes. It's not clear whether or not Point of Presence would cover the copying of people's picture and postings to a completely different website, and so Pam, before we go making changes, it is an issue that needs to be considered.
Also, while I'm certain that MSN could, if they so desired, copy the authentication database to another site, my question is why would they? First of all, it's not a small task and MSN, if you look at the terms of use for this site has already said that they will not provide technical support. Secondly, because the authentication data contains information that users may wish to remain private, that copying it for a site outside of MSN is, in all probability, a violation of MSN's stated policies on policy (See MSN's TOU and "Privacy Policy"). Btw, because I value my privacy, I hope that MSN would not allow database transfers.
As far as anyone writing a script to transfer the authentication data themselves, just where would you get the information to do that? Justin talked about authenticating based on IP addresses. However, maybe he's assuming that the managers have access to people's IP addresses. They do not. In fact, if you hide your email address, the managers have no way of accessing that either, so, Justin, what would be required to write a script and can it be done if all you have is a user name because that's all you're going to have in most cases.
Of course, an answer to that issue is that, if people really wanted to move, then they will do it on their own. However, and that was my main concern when this was discussed before, I'm not convinced that a lot of people would choose to move. In fact, I told CM that he really had a sales job to do, and this thread appears to be a start. However, since I don't see a large number of people jumping on the bandwagon yet, perhaps more marketing that discusses things in terms that most people, who aren't techies, would understand, is needed.
Also, Justin, how often does the license need to be renewed and what is the approximate cost?
Finally for now, another objection that both Patrick and I had before was that we did not want to see the domain on which DCS resided to be under the control of a single person. If I understand Justin correctly, this is not an issue with this particular software. Is that correct?

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From: nikon Sent: 5/10/2007 7:50 PM
I don't follow the technical aspect of it or the legal...but I will say if it ain't broke don't fix it. We had to fix the chatroom and I still don't like it as much as the old one, even though there is a nifty camera icon on the new one.
As for the security aspect of it and having the site open to the public I think that is an asset for more people than it is a draw back. We have had instances over the years where spouses have come to the site and I do think they were handled well. And we have had some spam people post too and they were quickly removed and banned by the managers -- I still want to know where the nude beach one went but no biggie.
Anyway, as a long time member, like someone else said, I say leave things the way they are until we are forced to change then this may be a good alternative.
jim