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From: pam36 Sent: 5/11/2007 3:47 AM
bob...you mentioned the back up of site material, and the manager's agreeing it was a good idea (which we did)......on a personal note i did go back and copy some posts of my own that i had wanted to save, but when it came to copying other peoples....i felt kind of funny about that.....and after rethinking about it this week, i'm not so sure the old posts should be copied or moved....
if msn were to shut its community doors and pull the plug, perhaps all of our old posts over the years should go too...as much as i would hate to lose them (and any of you that know me know how much i love this message board), they do belong with DCS.....this DCS.....a magical little home away from home on the internet.....if we were to start another community on vbulletin or divorcecaresupport.com it would need to build its own type of magic....(lol and i'm sure i'm making absolutely no sense, although i know what it is i am trying to say image)....kind of the equivalent of digging up graves to move a cemetary maybe?.....many of the old posts belong to members that are in an entirely different place in their lives now...for a brief moment in time, a small dot in the big picture of their lives, they were here......their stories, their struggles and triumphs.....they belong to that moment in time....and if the ship ever does go down, perhaps they should go down with it....
i kind of think that is what will happen to me as well.....and it could very well be a part of why the idea of moving DCS brings out such an emotional reaction in me....the part of me that is here.....i'm at an entirely different place in my life now (thankfully)....i stay because there is a part of me here.....i feel interwoven with the site.....and i do not believe that would translate over to a new site....
if/when we ever do have to move then i think maybe it would be best to begin from scratch after all.....a new beginning.....and a chance for others to intertwine their lives and stories into a "new" history....certain links to resources, etc, could be copied and moved (and fairly easily i believe).....but the posts i think should be left alone....
pam39
and if anyway was able to actual understand what i meant just now....thanks image

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From: MSN Nicknameimagecraftywtch Sent: 5/11/2007 8:07 AM
okay first off all this post should have been on suggestions and complaints not on DCS main board, but I can understand why Justin posted it here so more ppl would have a chance to read it (and Justin btw tyvm for ur generous offer)
One of the arguments used here is the fact that DCS h as outgrown MSN and we are getting new ppl daily so we should move to a place where we could serve more people. Now call me selfish but as a manager I like to get to know the ppl who belong to DCS, as many as possible anyways image I d on't know if we could do that if we had 15,000 members. DCS gives me a sense of family and community and I'm not sure if we would have that if DCS was to become much bigger than i t is now.
Last time this was brought up a lot of ppl felt that if we were to move their posts to another site it would be a huge violation of one of their most intimate experiences, they joined DCS, msn community thats where they want their posts kept and I can understand their feelings. They would rather delete their posts than give us permission to switch them.
I have also waited to see how ppl responded on having a bigger, newer DCS this post has been on the boards since may 2nd and I don't see even 5 ppl sayign yes MSN sucks lets move. While I do realize that eventually we (or future managers) might have to make the move I for now agree with Nikon and Tina...if it ain't broke don't fix it.

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From: MSN Nicknameimagejhall0626 Sent: 5/11/2007 8:56 AM
Okay, I clearly have a lot to respond to.

First CalBob, writing a script to transfer information from the board to the new site would NOT have authentication details included. This would, without a doubt, require some level of individual user-input... especially since members can hide email addresses from managers.

What I did have in mind, is the end-user goes to the new site, enters their authentication details from MSN Groups, and is then offered to signup for the new site. The authentication details would NOT be stored, but only checked against MSN Groups so previous posts can be given proper ownership.

The part that would actually be automated, is the photos and messages themselves. Once there members would have a great deal more flexibility in what shows up... for example, a lacking feature in the current photos section is their lack of privacy. If Joe Blow wants to upload a photo, but only wants Jane and Jeff to see it, we can do that.

And I think an incorrect assumption is being made here. Simply because we don't have an at-large response to this doesn't mean people won't do it, in fact, it doesn't even mean people don't want to. They simply haven't provided their input. And I'm not convinced it's fair to assume that those not providing input don't want to move.

As for the license renewal, it will run approximately $100/year. However, the fee is for continued support and upgrades. Should the Managers/Members be happy with a certain version of vBulletin, there won't be any more need to pay the fee.

However, vBulletin is just the software, it does in fact require a domain name. And no, neither the domain name or vBulletin require a single person to be listed as owner. Both would be owned by DCS.

Now, when I started discussing private forums and what not, I should have been more clear on something. vBulletin has an option for private topics, but they certainly aren't required. And "private" means whatever you want it to. It may mean signup is required to read, reply, start threads or any combination of the above. In some cases, private can mean you have to be over 18 to participate, have certain topics that people can go for support from the same sex etc.

So no, I'm not suggesting locking up DCS, on the contrary, I'm suggesting that vBulletin has more options. Whether or not they are implemented now, 3 months from now or never, they are available.

Now, again back to Bob's second post. vBulletin is just the software... it has to be put somewhere. Now the most logical choice is divorcecaresupport.com since it's there. If that's an issue, so be it, pick a new domain name. Either way, the domain ownership can easily be several people, although the domain would list "DCS" as the owner, instead of a list of individuals.

As for what should move, I'm suggesting we move everything. One of the highlights of vBulletin is has an extraordinary amount of plugins. So the resources, annoucements, and all other information from the site can be moved as well. Not only that, but it would be far more centralized and less "scattered" like it is now...

Everything you see at MSN Groups vBulletin can do, and it can do it in a way that is more manageable, better organized, and easier to implement. And a solid point for vBulletin, that MSN Groups seriously lacks, is I no longer have "limited" features in the message boards, simply because I don't use Internet Explorer.

I've brought up some points on technical issues, and others as well. There's no question vBulletin is technically superior, and there are a variety of reasons that it's superior in a non-technical sense. Unfortunately, the features I pointed out have some people concerned that I'm suggesting DCS go private. I'm not, on the contrary, I'm suggesting that we have a great deal of capability in determining what sections of DCS should do what.

Now I don't recommend any type of screening for membership. I do suggest there might be some forums which should require registration... I gave examples of that earlier.

However, it's hard to pinpoint specific features that will appeal to the audience at-large. vBulletin has been 7 years in the making... the feature list is extraordinary. Now I would be happy to install vB on the new site so both managers and members could get a feel for how it works, and perhaps I can work with CT and Ron on that, should the managers (and members) be interested in "seeing" what I'm trying to offer.

One security feature I would really like to reiterate (and perhaps, explain more in depth) is the IP issue. When I spoke of the IP Banning, what I was referring to is "problem" folks. It's relatively easy on MSN Groups, to sign up for new accounts and come right on back. This wouldn't be an issue with MSN, once your banned, your banned until it's lifted.

Pam, while I can appreciate your hesitance in moving posts, I think that would, perhaps, be the gravest mistake of all. vBulletin has an amazing search engine built-in, and moving posts would give new members an opportunity to search for situations similar to their own. This is especially important, as others have mentioned, since they read before they joined. I think to let SO MUCH information and resources die off because of an emotional tie to MSN Groups would be a total travesty... at the end of the day, we have to have a balance between protecting users past, and providing assistance to users future.

Finally, on Ana's last comment. Right now DCS has a standing membership of what... 5000+-? Do you know all of them? I've been here for 3 years, and in that time I know OF maybe 50 people, I know perhaps 10 relatively well and I would say in those 3 years I've gotten to know 2 or 3 very well.

Given that, even assuming your numbers are a great deal higher, say even 10 times higher, it's still hardly "knowing everyone"

Let me put it this way... I belong to another community as well, and quite similar to DCS, it tends to have high turn over. I've been a member for 7 years, and am the longest running active member of the community that's still active.

However, there is a core group that's been there for several years, and we all know each other, what businesses we run, past experiences, business growth etc. It's great to have that connection.

This is a community of 125,000 people. So I think the "size" of a certain community doesn't matter. DCS is big enough now that it would literally, improbable to know everyone. Especially since this place can be a revolving door... most get the support they need and don't return.

Again, let me hit home on the point that to say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" one must assume MSN Groups isn't broke. I disagree. It is broke, however, instead of fixing it we duct tape the issues that this place has. The chat room was an issue, so now we have a new chat, and as a result, members have to sign up twice... and rarely with the same username. Not only is that a pain for management, and members, it actually makes it a great deal more difficult to remember who's who around here. I'm terrible with names, and unfortunately I'm forced to remember two at DCS...

The photos section is a total annoyance. Why should I have to go through 13 pages of photos to find my own album? Or someone else's... because of the weakness of the MSN Groups?

Let me suggest again, that perhaps the best available option is for a "test board" to be installed at divorcecaresupport.com, so that members and managers alike will have the opportunity to play with the new software, and see what they think. Is that an agreeable idea?

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From: MSN Nicknameimagedsg_stang Sent: 5/11/2007 9:11 AM
I am offering my help where needed on this!